Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

[Plantje]

So, this is why I am in doubt and why I started this topic in the first place. Basically: will it always be a hassle with systems like Domoticz, Home Assistant etc? Will it always be tinkering? And at the same time: does switching to a system like Atom Homey, Fibaro Homecenter, Samsung Smart Things mean it will automatically work and always work? Or perhaps the issues that I am running into are mostly caused by using either older devices or cheap Chinese devices.
I know my brother was done with Domoticz and switched to Atom Homey and every now and then he asks:"When are you done tinkering with your home automation? When do you take the plunge?"

Agree. I happen to like the messing about with technology but I realise that the current system is fully dependent on me and heaven forbid me and my car have a close encounter with a tree at speed...

He he... my brother's wife at times says if something happens to my husband, I either have to ask you or the neighbour to reboot the house My wife has the same. A few weeks ago WAF was at an all time low...

On your question, is OZW/ZW-node-js functional/stable enough compared to fibaro/homey/..? That's a good question. Is the hassle worth the flexibility? Comparing to zigbee, for me it is. I can make minor changes that allow me to keep it functional without major hassle.

Are some of the zwave issues solved in zw-node-js? Without the change to >255 devices in the python framework, and without a python plugin, there is time to look at the HA/zw-node-js forums and monitor people's issues reported and see how that's being experienced. I am in no rush but the moment a flexible alternative comes along, I will move.

I just had another of those very important reasons for starting this topic...
Again, I noticed that some of the smoke detectors were not reporting temperature at the set interval. Checked the settings and AGAIN all my smoke detectors were reset to the default settings for all parameters. That raises some questions:

• What causes this resetting of parameters?
• Does this also happen if you include these smoke detectors in Fibaro HC or Atom Homey?
• Do other people using Domoticz and Fibaro smoke detectors also have these issues?
• Does this also happen with Fibaro 2nd gen smoke detectors or only with the 1st gen?
• Can I easily restore these parameters rather than setting them node by node?
• Etc....

Some of these questions can be pretty easily answered... And although this topic is pages and pages long a few of the simplest questions have not been answered.

[heggink]

Not trying to open another can of worms, the smoke detectors never worked properly for me in zwave so I just bought zigbee ones. Never any issues with then since. I just gave up on the zwave ones.
Many times, zwave issues are blamed on / due to "cheap Chinese devices" (neo plugs...). Whether always valid?

No idea if these issues also happen with the homey's of this world. Would be interesting to check.

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

[Plantje]

Ahum, well... let me rephrase that: ALL Z-Wave nodes have been reset to their default parameter values. And although a huge part of the defaults are ok, this is not what I expect!

I have re-read my initial post and see that this is one of the main reasons for starting the topic. So, I asked my brother what Z-Wave devices he has. But I think I will raise a question on this in the Homey community as well. Still it would be really great if people here can share their experience as well!

Not trying to open another can of worms, the smoke detectors never worked properly for me in zwave so I just bought zigbee ones. Never any issues with then since. I just gave up on the zwave ones.

Yeah... but I noticed it is not only the smoke detectors...

Many times, zwave issues are blamed on / due to "cheap Chinese devices" (neo plugs...). Whether always valid?

I have my doubts there as well.

No idea if these issues also happen with the homey's of this world. Would be interesting to check.

Yes, I am going to check on the Homey community and perhaps some other communities like the ones from Fibaro or Samsung Smart things.

Main question here remains: why do all Z-Wave parameters get reset to default values? And: am I the only one experiencing this?

[harrykausl]

As I worte before, I'm still on 4.107 with OZW 1.4. I did tests in 2020.1 and 2020.2 but after every reboot I had problems. On OZW 1.4 it works. I have 4 different types of communication in domoticz, Z-Wave, RFXCom, Enocean and HUE-Bridge, with a lot of lua-scripts to handle my workflows.
That is the advantage of Domoticz, different types of hardware / protocols with possiblity to scripting and event-handling. So for me, it would not be possible to switch to a only Z-Wave system. But I would like to have a "non-dead" Z-Wave implementation. If this is a commercial interface, I would pay for it. And I want to have the advantages of the new Domoticz-Versions without z-wave problems.

[heggink]

@Plantje

Yes, I am going to check on the Homey community and perhaps some other communities like the ones from Fibaro or Samsung Smart things.

I did a little snooping around on the homey community/forum pages. After a while, I started to get this "Deja Vue" feeling with posts like:
https://community.athom.com/t/heiman-sm ... ector/2344
https://community.athom.com/t/ikea-dimmer-problem/44074
https://community.athom.com/t/fixing-di ... lows/37896
and so on/forth. Looks like it's not such a walk in the park as well. Then again, maybe not surprising as one could wonder whether a relatively small company (aren't all home automation companies small?) can even compete with an open source community from a bug fixing perspective... 10 devs owning all problems vs 20.000 end user type hackers (like myself being an old C programmer who engages in python hacking these days) and a few capable devs having multiple interests . The judges are probably still out on that one .

Anyways, still no answer for your "why do all the parameters get reset" question.

H

[roblom]

A few days ago I also had a deja vue because a lot of my zwave devices weren't working anymore. Most of them where indeed missing some parameters which got back after the "update device info" function. I only can't get the Fibaro smoke sensors I have working anymore. After the update device info function the get the generic type "notification sensor" and no parameter are shown.

[Plantje]

A few days ago I also had a deja vue because a lot of my zwave devices weren't working anymore. Most of them where indeed missing some parameters which got back after the "update device info" function. I only can't get the Fibaro smoke sensors I have working anymore. After the update device info function the get the generic type "notification sensor" and no parameter are shown.

This morning replaced some batteries again. One of the Fibaro smoke sensors was back again after I got back from a run. The other one still last seen yesterday.
So, I hit the "refresh node info" button and....my Domoticz is stuck again. So, I have to restart the service again. Do you not have that issue?

[Plantje]

Well this is new: in the logging I see: 2021-03-20 12:49:57.931 Error: WebServer:8080 thread seems to have ended unexpectedly (last update 71.000000 seconds ago)

So, it seems to only be the webserver part that gets stuck

[RvdM]

Oh my... Am I glad i stumbled on to this post. Since last year it is nothing but trouble with my domoticz-zwave setup.
Devices go unknown.. have to refresh the devices once every few weeks and sometimes this resolve things.. and sometimes the only thing I can do is just wait a couple of days. (not good for keeping the wife satisfied).Also today, 3 AM on a saturday i'm once again debugging and trying to solve the problem by repeatedly clicking on refresh node button.

I've never had so many issues since this last year and the most frustrating part is, the philips hue setup and my esp32 (wifi) modules are working without any maintenance. This brings me to a point that i'm really considering quiting my domotica hobby or fully switch to zigbee and migrate from domoticz to home assistant.

Good to see i'm not alone because I was thinking i'm the one being incompetent of maintaining a domotica network.

[thelbekk]

So, I hit the "refresh node info" button and....my Domoticz is stuck again. So, I have to restart the service again. Do you not have that issue?

Well this is new: in the logging I see: 2021-03-20 12:49:57.931 Error: WebServer:8080 thread seems to have ended unexpectedly (last update 71.000000 seconds ago)

These two go together, in my experience. However, I've only seen it happen when I do "refresh node info" on one node, and then again on another while the first one is still pending. I learned a couple of years ago to just do one at a time, go hit the wakeup button on the device in question (if battery operated), and verify that the update had happened before asking Domoticz to refresh another one. It hasn't happened since.

Also, I upgrade to a new current Domoticz from the HEAD of the git repo from time to time, and for the past year, at least, it has been extremely stable.

[Ittiz]

Oh my... Am I glad i stumbled on to this post. Since last year it is nothing but trouble with my domoticz-zwave setup.
Devices go unknown.. have to refresh the devices once every few weeks and sometimes this resolve things.. and sometimes the only thing I can do is just wait a couple of days. (not good for keeping the wife satisfied).Also today, 3 AM on a saturday i'm once again debugging and trying to solve the problem by repeatedly clicking on refresh node button.

I've never had so many issues since this last year and the most frustrating part is, the philips hue setup and my esp32 (wifi) modules are working without any maintenance. This brings me to a point that i'm really considering quiting my domotica hobby or fully switch to zigbee and migrate from domoticz to home assistant.

Good to see i'm not alone because I was thinking i'm the one being incompetent of maintaining a domotica network.

Just roll back to 4.10717. Z-wave worked great back then. I rolled back a long time ago after getting frustrated with exactly the same kind of issues. The one issue is Google changed their notification system since then so the built in ones don't work when using 4.10717. But you can get the working by following the instructions in this post here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=30341 If you look at the date on that post you'll see these issues have been going on for quite some time. The bigger z-wave network you have the bigger your issues will become.

[waaren]

Just roll back to 4.10717. Z-wave worked great back then. I rolled back a long time ago after getting frustrated with exactly the same kind of issues. The one issue is Google changed their notification system since then so the built in ones don't work when using 4.10717. But you can get the working by following the instructions in this post here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=30341 If you look at the date on that post you'll see these issues have been going on for quite some time. The bigger z-wave network you have the bigger your issues will become.

Please be aware that there is no such thing as 'just roll back to 4.10717'
At least 10 database schema changes were applied between that version and the current beta or next stable. Rolling back would imply rebuilding your complete database and loosing all history.

[harrykausl]

Would it not be possible, to integrate the old, good working ozw1.4 in a new domotiticz version? This might be a solution, till it is clear, how ozw will go on.

[rrozema]

Ozw 1.4 doesn't support a lot of more modern devices. Many of the issues complained about in here are in fact user errors. Don't understand me wrong, there are a lot of issues in 1.6, but going back to 1.4 is not a solution.

[rrozema]

I've never had so many issues since this last year and the most frustrating part is, the philips hue setup and my esp32 (wifi) modules are working without any maintenance. This brings me to a point that i'm really considering quiting my domotica hobby or fully switch to zigbee and migrate from domoticz to home assistant.

Good to see i'm not alone because I was thinking i'm the one being incompetent of maintaining a domotica network.

In case you do switch away from z-wave: please let me know what z-wave devices you've got. If the price is right I may want to buy some of them of you

[rrozema]

@Plantje

Yes, I am going to check on the Homey community and perhaps some other communities like the ones from Fibaro or Samsung Smart things.

I did a little snooping around on the homey community/forum pages. After a while, I started to get this "Deja Vue" feeling with posts like:
https://community.athom.com/t/heiman-sm ... ector/2344
https://community.athom.com/t/ikea-dimmer-problem/44074
https://community.athom.com/t/fixing-di ... lows/37896
and so on/forth. Looks like it's not such a walk in the park as well. Then again, maybe not surprising as one could wonder whether a relatively small company (aren't all home automation companies small?) can even compete with an open source community from a bug fixing perspective... 10 devs owning all problems vs 20.000 end user type hackers (like myself being an old C programmer who engages in python hacking these days) and a few capable devs having multiple interests . The judges are probably still out on that one .

Anyways, still no answer for your "why do all the parameters get reset" question.

H

Did you verify that it is indeed the parameters in the device that got reset? For example I've got some in wall touch switches that normally have a blue ring lit when the switch is in the off position. I've switched the blue ring off by setting one of the options in the device's settings. I've never had that accidently the ring went blue again. In other words, the device settings in the device itself were never reset to their default values, it was just Domiticz that didn't know the options values anymore.

Many of the issues reported here and with ozw 1.6 in general can be traced back to the ozwcache xml file getting corrupted. The device settings are also stored in this xml file and read from there upon each start of Domiticz: if the settings seem 'lost', try re-reading them from the device using the button in the bottom of the options list.

[Plantje]

Did you verify that it is indeed the parameters in the device that got reset? For example I've got some in wall touch switches that normally have a blue ring lit when the switch is in the off position. I've switched the blue ring off by setting one of the options in the device's settings. I've never had that accidently the ring went blue again. In other words, the device settings in the device itself were never reset to their default values, it was just Domiticz that didn't know the options values anymore.

Fair point... and to be completely honest: I don't know! So, on the 31st of March I installed the latest beta of Domoticz. Everything seemed ok and today I noticed all Z-Wave parameters had been reset to their default values.

How you mention it, it may be that the parameters known by the device are still the way I set them, but they're just not being communicated back to Domoticz.
In my case it is somewhat hard to see as I have not changed settings that are that easy to check.
For example: I have set the report for my smoke detectors to report every hour or every 0.1C or 1C temperature difference. Where the default is no periodic report and every 2C difference
And another is for my Greenwave smart plugs I have set the report to report on 1% usage difference where the default is 10%.
So, I have to check IF there is a report and if so IF it is bigger than the default or bigger than my setting.

And let's assume you're right: I would expect that if I pull the settings by clicking the button to retrieve the current parameters, it should do that, right?
Ah.... and as it seems: if you pull the values like that, you'll have to wait until the device wakes up. But I am not too sure...

Many of the issues reported here and with ozw 1.6 in general can be traced back to the ozwcache xml file getting corrupted. The device settings are also stored in this xml file and read from there upon each start of Domiticz: if the settings seem 'lost', try re-reading them from the device using the button in the bottom of the options list.

I would expect retrieving the values would mean: retrieving them from the device itself.

[Plantje]

Ozw 1.4 doesn't support a lot of more modern devices. Many of the issues complained about in here are in fact user errors. Don't understand me wrong, there are a lot of issues in 1.6, but going back to 1.4 is not a solution.

Exactly, it is what I mentioned here:

Let me quickly get back to my own topic. I love seeing the responses here! This is exactly the discussion I wanted to get going!

I read through all of the comments, but didn't (and am not going to) reply to all of them. That would be pointless.

However, I think I can draw some preliminary conclusions.

• First of all, it seems that the issues that I had a few years ago where mostly caused by my limited understanding of Z-Wave, the nodes and devices. That has improved in the meantime, but most likely I will still make some mistakes.

I AM aware of the fact that some "issues" are due to my misunderstanding. But not all of them are.

[Plantje]

Did you verify that it is indeed the parameters in the device that got reset?

You got me thinking here and you're right! That is unfortunate, because as it seems Domoticz cannot retrieve the current settings from a node. At the same time it is fortunate as we now again know for some part what is going on.

For example: I was switching some lights on for 5 minutes in case a PIR sensed motion. However, the last few days the lights were continuously burning. I thought this was related to the fact that in some groups I switched on the lights for a period of time too. For debugging I changed the automatic script to:

Code: Select all

commandArray = {}

intLicht = 50
strDimLevel = '65'
strBewegingsSensor = 'Multi Overloop Beweging'
strLamp = 'Lamp Overloop'
strLichtSensor = 'Multi Overloop Licht'
strDuurLichtAan = ' FOR 1'

--print('Status ' .. strLamp .. ' ' .. otherdevices[strLamp])
--print('Status ' .. strLichtSensor .. ' ' .. otherdevices_svalues[strLichtSensor])
--print('Status ' .. strBewegingsSensor .. ' ' .. otherdevices[strBewegingsSensor])
--print('Test commando: ' .. 'Set Level ' .. strDimLevel .. strDuurLichtAan)

if (otherdevices[strBewegingsSensor] == 'On' and (tonumber(otherdevices_svalues[strLichtSensor]) < intLicht) and otherdevices[strLamp] == 'Off') then
    print('Nieuwe logica '.. strLamp .. ' aan')
    commandArray[strLamp]= ('Set Level ' .. strDimLevel .. strDuurLichtAan)
end

return commandArray

Upon checking the current values of the multi sensor (that had been there for weeks):

What the F? I cannot add pictures anymore.... the board's attachments quota has been reached...?!?

Well.... ok.... without the pictures: the parameters had settings of 30 seconds motion on time. No matter how often I hit the button to retrieve the current values. Only after changing the on time to 25 seconds and waking the device after changing the changes were in effect. It turns out the settings earlier were still the 10 minutes that I set months ago...

[lamama1234]

This is what helped solve my problem - and hopefully future ones as well though it's more a kinda workaround:
I modified options.xml (/domoticz/Config) by setting

<Option name="ReloadAfterUpdate" value="NEVER" />

which prevents a new z-wave devices config file to automatically modify existing nodes. You could also prevent the new file from downloading by setting

<Option name="AutoUpdateConfigFile" value="false" />

However you might miss device info in the future when you install new devices with this last setting.

Although manual says not to, after that I modified the ozwcache_[id].xml file (/domoticz/Config) specifically for the recalcitrate device. Under Commandclass id="49" name="COMMAND_CLASS_SENSOR_MULTILEVEL" I simply deleted some lines that contained bs imho (yep, first made a backup ). Depending on your situation you may have to experiment a little. My temperature readings were restored. After that I had to manually delete the duplicate and false devices from the devices panel in Domoticz. Domoticz keeps these stored in a separate db I presume.

Thanks dmtcaz. Will this procedure restore my previous saved temperature readings?