Zigbee in Domoticz (win10) Topic is solved

[olleman]

Hello!

I'd like to start moving to Zigbee devices (I have loads of 433 mhz deivces) and plan on buying the initial hardware. However, I'm a bit lost.

I run Domoticz on a win10 computer and it's been surprisingly stable for the last 5 years so I'd like to avoid switching to Linux.
Seems there are tons of hardware and software plugins out there and I would appreaciate some guidance on where to start.

My initial needs are:
Zigbee 3.0 compatible controller (I've been looking at the Sonoff TI CC2652P USB dongle)
Some plugin for Domoticz that works on win10
A couple of Zigbee 3.0 dimmer modules.

Even though Zigbee 3.0 should mean 100% compatibillity it seems that this isn't always the case? Could anyone suggest decent and compatible hardware/software for my needs?

,Olle

[pipiche]

You have several Zigbee related plugin available, I don't know if all works on Windows, but if they are python based, that should work.

You can find some information and insights of the Zigbee for Domoticz plugin here https://zigbeefordomoticz.github.io/wiki/en-eng/, this should work on Win10 you need to follow some specific things described here ( https://github.com/zigbeefordomoticz/wi ... on-windows )

As regards to the compatibility I think you pointed out the right issue, but in general I think every plugin communities are good enough to make adaptations and get it compatible.

As the SonOff TI CC2652P is concerned, I think that is a good choice which is going to work .

Take in consideration that Zigbee is based on a mesh network so you need to have routers ( zigbee main powered devices - with neutral and phase) to have a proper and reliable zigbee network.

[olleman]

Thanks for a really quick answer.

I plan to have 4 dimmers initially that will all have neutral and thus work as repeaters. I hope this will be good enough to have decent coverage. My main concern is what typ of dimmer device to choose. And the compatibillity list of for example zigbee for domoticz leave me with more or less no option. It's strange the dimmers that pop up at the top of my google searches like Sunricher, girier, moesgo etc are not listed at all. I wonder if they work but no one just had the time to put them on the list....?

[pipiche]

did you try here : https://zigbee.blakadder.com/dimmers.html this is I think the most accurate one.

Now you are correct, the fact that a device is not in the list could also be because it works perfectly and they were no complains

[olleman]

Yes, that's the list I was referring to. Not a lot of dimmers for Zigbee for domoticz plugin. zigbee2mqtt seems to have a lot more but the whole plugin installation etc seems way more complex.
It seems that the only viable option for a dimmer is this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001279 ... c2716fb935

Is this a fair summary between the 2 plugins?:
Zigbee for domoticz: The easiest "plug and play" solution for Zigbee+Domoticz (but perhas not for windows) and requires commercial hardware like the Sonoff dongle. Seems to lack in compatibillity or no one just has any issues with a lot of hardware...

Zigbee2mqtt: A more complex installation and require open source hardware, way more compatibillity. Perhaps relies on older hardware? Seems that the Sonoff 3.0 uses newer chipset than the open source ditto for zigbee2mqtt?

[pipiche]

To give you more insights on the Zigbee for Domoticz, it relys on the zigpy libraries which are a set of Open Source Zigbee radio libraries. So all Zigbee related chipset supported will work with the plugin.

More info for TI chips here https://github.com/zigpy/zigpy-znp#hard ... quirements
More info for Silicon Labs EmberZNet here https://github.com/zigpy/bellows#hardware-requirement

I think they are a number of people using CC2531 and that work. It will depend if you want to expand. Now the plugin provides a feature that you can expand/change the Zigbee coordinator and the plugin will restore the zigbee information from the previous hw to the new one, and so you can continue to expand your network.

For the device itself and your Dimmer, as I was mentioning earlier if the device is compliant with the Zigbee norm and in the case of a dimmer there is not much than On/Off/Dim+/Dim- and some transition parameter, the plugin is generic enough to work with unknown devices. As you mentioned the fact that it is not listed doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just mean that it has not been referenced.
What I have seen so far, is when a device works for several plugins like Z2M, deConz and ZHA, there is a very high chance that it works for ZforD or few adaptation have to be done. And the Zigbee for Domoticz community is somehow responsive

[olleman]

Thanks for your fast answers.

I tried installing Zigbee for Domoticz even though I don't have any USB device yet.
I have followed the instructions for installing python 3.5.2 and confirmed that it's working within Domoticz.
I then followed the french guide for installing version 5 which included the below steps:

git bash run with administrator priviligies

*git clone https://github.com/zigbeefordomoticz/Do ... Zigbee.git
from within the plugin folder of Domoticz

*cd Domoticz-Zigbee

*git config --add submodule.recurse true

*git submodule update --init --recursive

*pip3 install -r requirements.txt

On the last command I run into trouble and get this error message:

Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
File "C:\Users\olles\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-r8rs9gh9\aiohttp\setup.py", line 11
NO_EXTENSIONS: bool = bool(os.environ.get("AIOHTTP_NO_EXTENSIONS"))
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Any idea what I'm doing wrong ?

[pipiche]

any chance to have at least python3.7 or better 3.8 ?

[olleman]

I got it to install thanks to you I installed Python 3.8.9 instead and that seems to have done the trick. The web interface is now working, I'm getting "backend error undefined undefined" but I guess this has to with the fact that I don't have any hardware as of now.

I'll hold off until black friday for a potential deal on the sonoff ZigBee 3.0 USB

[pipiche]

that sound good. You can in all cases check the logs files

- in Domoticz
- in the plugin directory under Log/ folder

eventually you can try to set None in the "Coordinator Type" . It will allow you to get the plugin in a case of testing mode and the WebUI on port 9440 should be working

Screenshot 2022-11-15 at 23.02.17.png (78.57 KiB) Viewed 5021 times

[Thorgal789]

Hello, on Win10 you have deconz too https://www.phoscon.de/en/conbee2/install#windows10

The application is independent, so can be used without domoticz or with others applications, and in same time. Can use for exemple Android application like https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... l=US&pli=1
If you want to use it with domoticz, there is a plugin too

[olleman]

that sound good. You can in all cases check the logs files

- in Domoticz
- in the plugin directory under Log/ folder

eventually you can try to set None in the "Coordinator Type" . It will allow you to get the plugin in a case of testing mode and the WebUI on port 9440 should be working

Screenshot 2022-11-15 at 23.02.17.png

After setting the USB device to none, all error codes in Domoticz log disappeared. At least for a while. After some time it gives me something about coordinator connectivity but I'm sure that's about my lack of USB device.
I do however get "Backend error undefined undefined" when entering the web interface at port 9440. Perhaps that too is about the USB device. I'll just order it and take it from there. From what I understood I can use the Sonoff 3.0 USB with zigbee2mqtt as well if I need to try another plugin.

[olleman]

Hello, on Win10 you have deconz too https://www.phoscon.de/en/conbee2/install#windows10

The application is independent, so can be used without domoticz or with others applications, and in same time. Can use for exemple Android application like https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... l=US&pli=1
If you want to use it with domoticz, there is a plugin too

Thank you, so much to choose from For now I'll start with the Sonoff USB 3.0 and Zigbee for Domoticz and see where that takes me...

[pipiche]

that sound good. You can in all cases check the logs files

- in Domoticz
- in the plugin directory under Log/ folder

eventually you can try to set None in the "Coordinator Type" . It will allow you to get the plugin in a case of testing mode and the WebUI on port 9440 should be working

Screenshot 2022-11-15 at 23.02.17.png

After setting the USB device to none, all error codes in Domoticz log disappeared. At least for a while. After some time it gives me something about coordinator connectivity but I'm sure that's about my lack of USB device.
I do however get "Backend error undefined undefined" when entering the web interface at port 9440. Perhaps that too is about the USB device. I'll just order it and take it from there. From what I understood I can use the Sonoff 3.0 USB with zigbee2mqtt as well if I need to try another plugin.

Did you also set correctly the Domoticz API url ?

[olleman]

Did you also set correctly the Domoticz API url ?

Well, I changed it to the servers local ip adress but also tried default, for local connections I don't use a password. Both attempts give me the same fault code in the webinterface at 9440.

I enabled and disabled the plugin between each try to make in restart.

[pipiche]

You need to set DomoticZ allowing local access.
Check the settings page of DomoticZ to allow direct access on 127.0.0.1


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[olleman]

You need to set DomoticZ allowing local access.
Check the settings page of DomoticZ to allow direct access on 127.0.0.1

That's what I have already under: "Local networking (No username/password)"
192.168.0.*;127.0.0.1;10.8.0.*;192.168.1.*

[Gamester17]

Is this a fair summary between the 2 plugins?:
Zigbee for domoticz: The easiest "plug and play" solution for Zigbee+Domoticz (but perhas not for windows) and requires commercial hardware like the Sonoff dongle. Seems to lack in compatibillity or no one just has any issues with a lot of hardware...

Zigbee2mqtt: A more complex installation and require open source hardware, way more compatibility. Perhaps relies on older hardware? Seems that the Sonoff 3.0 uses newer chipset than the open source ditto for zigbee2mqtt?

I do not think those summarized assumptions are correct, at least not in my understanding of the currently available projects.

First of all, both Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin as well as Zigbee2MQTT are fully 100% FLOSS ("Free and Open Source Software") application projects. See:

https://github.com/zigbeefordomoticz/Domoticz-Zigbee

and

https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/

Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin is the open-source project that has the best integration with Domoticz as being a plugin it is practically embedded into Domoticz, and while Zigbee2MQTT does currently seem to have a little better device compatibility, or at least memebers from that community are better at updating the Blakadder's Zigbee Device Compatibility Repository, both projects should in ossible to get the work in both projects. At this the Zigbee Coordinator adapter hardware that uses the most open-source components is ZiGate (which does not have stable support in Zigbee2MQTT).

Digging one level deeper, with the exception of ZiGate support you will notice that Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin depends on the zigpy library and Zigbee2MQTT depend on the zigbee-herdsman library, both of which are more or less serve a similar purpose of open-source Zigbee framework solutions which also abstract different low-level hardware commnuication. With the Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin and the zigpy library being written in Python Script programming language, while Zigbee2MQTT and the zigbee-herdsman library is written in TypeScript/JavaScript programming language. See:

https://github.com/zigpy/zigpy

and

https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee-herdsman

Those Zigbee framework libraries they depend on also require Zigbee radio hardware in the form of a Zigbee Coordinator adapter. The zigpy library support all Zigbee radio hardware (Zigbee Coordinator adapters) that Zigbee2MQTT supports (and even a couple more). While any Zigbee Coordinator adapter can, in theory, be designed as open-source hardware and even use partially open-source firmware (which some are and do), in practice, all those different adapters are in the end still based on some type of commercial SoC (System on a chip) integrated circuit chipset that incorporates an MCU (Microcontroller Unit) and an IEEE 802.15.4-based digital radio from one of the major semiconductor manufacturers who makes Zigbee chips + their own matching protocol stack and SDK (Software Development Kit) for their Zigbee chip (and all those manufacturer's Zigbee stacks and SDK are proprietary and closed source, however, most of them allow independent developers to build custom application firmware using their SDK as well as have open APIs).

[olleman]

I do not think those summarized assumptions are correct, at least not in my understanding of the currently available projects.

First of all, both Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin as well as Zigbee2MQTT are fully 100% FLOSS ("Free and Open Source Software") application projects. See:

https://github.com/zigbeefordomoticz/Domoticz-Zigbee

and

https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/

Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin is the open-source project that has the best integration with Domoticz as being a plugin it is practically embedded into Domoticz, and while Zigbee2MQTT does currently seem to have a little better device compatibility, or at least memebers from that community are better at updating the Blakadder's Zigbee Device Compatibility Repository, both projects should in ossible to get the work in both projects. At this the Zigbee Coordinator adapter hardware that uses the most open-source components is ZiGate (which does not have stable support in Zigbee2MQTT).

Digging one level deeper, with the exception of ZiGate support you will notice that Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin depends on the zigpy library and Zigbee2MQTT depend on the zigbee-herdsman library, both of which are more or less serve a similar purpose of open-source Zigbee framework solutions which also abstract different low-level hardware commnuication. With the Zigbee for Domoticz Plugin and the zigpy library being written in Python Script programming language, while Zigbee2MQTT and the zigbee-herdsman library is written in TypeScript/JavaScript programming language. See:

https://github.com/zigpy/zigpy

and

https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee-herdsman

Those Zigbee framework libraries they depend on also require Zigbee radio hardware in the form of a Zigbee Coordinator adapter. The zigpy library support all Zigbee radio hardware (Zigbee Coordinator adapters) that Zigbee2MQTT supports (and even a couple more). While any Zigbee Coordinator adapter can, in theory, be designed as open-source hardware and even use partially open-source firmware (which some are and do), in practice, all those different adapters are in the end still based on some type of commercial SoC (System on a chip) integrated circuit chipset that incorporates an MCU (Microcontroller Unit) and an IEEE 802.15.4-based digital radio from one of the major semiconductor manufacturers who makes Zigbee chips + their own matching protocol stack and SDK (Software Development Kit) for their Zigbee chip (and all those manufacturer's Zigbee stacks and SDK are proprietary and closed source, however, most of them allow independent developers to build custom application firmware using their SDK as well as have open APIs).

Thank you for your thorough review of the difference in particular between Zigbee for Domoticz and Zigbee2MQTT. It got fairly technical but I think I got the gist of it.
If I were to summarize there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the two and most hardware can be used for both of them? As for now I think I'll try to get Zigbee for Domoticz to work since simplicity definitley is on my list of priorities but I'm open to try different plugins if it doesn't meet my requirements.

[olleman]

I recieved my Sonoff dongle today and installed the universal driver from sillicon labs homepage. I think I got ut running, the webinterface at port 9440 reports this from "Coordinator infos"

Code: Select all

Branch Version: "20"
Channel: 15
Display Firmware Version: "Znp - 0708"
Extended PANID: "340395668259fd8f"
Firmware Version: "Branch: 20 Major: 21 Version: 0708"
IEEE: "00124b0025e14d52"
Major Version: "21"
Minor Version: "0708"
Network Key: "e6:35:ec:d1:c8:39:e2:cb:00:d4:24:97:81:54:98:20"
PANID: "a447"
Short Address: "0000"

Is there any other way I can check that the plugin and hardware are working when I don't have any Zigbee devices yet ?