Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

For Z-Wave related questions in Domoticz

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Plantje
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Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by Plantje »

Time and again, I am having Z-Wave issues. Maintaining the Z-Wave part of my Domoticz setup is taking a lot of time and that cannot be the idea of home automation. I can't imagine that everyone is having issues like these. That's why I started this topic: I want to find the root cause and fix it once and for all! Hoping for some assistance here!

After connecting a node everything is just fine and it seems to be working 100%. All values come in, all scripts based on the node work etc. However, after a while, issues start occurring.

This is my setup:
Z-Wave setup.png
Z-Wave setup.png (234.23 KiB) Viewed 7312 times
I also had 3 single Greenwave power nodes, but in an attempt to fix things, I have removed these from the network.

Issues that I am running into:
  • The Fibaro smoke detectors get reset to their default parameters
  • The Aeotec motion sensors do detect motion, but don't send the signal to the Domoticz server (while in the mean time every 5 minutes illumination and temperature values are being sent to the Domoticz server) this can be like this for hours or days and then all of a sudden it starts working again
  • Every now and then some sensors have the values: Unknown: id=0000 Unknown: type=0000, id=0000
  • Greenwave power nodes stop sending energy consumption and are not switchable
  • A lot of devices show having timeouts in the logging.
If issues like these occur, the only real solution seems to be to delete the node and add it again and then it works…until I have to repeat that process.

In general what occurs is: the list of nodes shows for each and every device that it has been seen recently, but underlying devices can be last seen days, weeks or months ago. No matter what I do, that doesn't change. Removing the node and adding it again does fix it.

My questions:
  • Do people recognize this? Or do other people have a stable Z-Wave network that hardly needs any maintenance?
  • How do the Z-Wave "groups" work? Would that perhaps help me?
  • I think it would help if I add some Coolcam power nodes, so I have some more hubs. I see separate range extenders being sold, do these work better than a power node or have other advantages over using a power node?
  • How can I better control my Z-Wave network? Is it possible to switch on or of a device as being the hub?
  • How can I revive devices under a node?
  • Is this something typical to Z-Wave in Domoticz? To put it differently: if I were to change to an Atom Homey as controller using the same Z-Wave devices, would that fix my problem? (It is however a rather expensive experiment :( )
What I have done so far to trouble shoot this issue:
  • Removed the three single Greenwave power nodes
  • In case I had to re-add a device I first removed it, reset it to factory settings, add it again and logged it in an Excel sheet. Now I am trying to see when things go South again.
Another idea I have is to reset the Aeonlabs Z-Wave stick to factory defaults and then add only very few devices. (Basically only the multi sensors that I need to switch my lights) And then from there build up my network both in number of devices and spread over the house all over again

I appreciate it if people think along! Any other suggestions are welcome!

I have seen several threads on Z-Wave and its connectivity, but they all ended up without real closure.

Strange enough: the Zigbee devices seem to be connected always! Even the old 433Mhz devices 99,99% of the time receive the correct signal..no matter how far away from the controller.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by commentator »

root cause: the incorrect state in Domoticz. Openzwave cp state is always correct

see https://github.com/domoticz/domoticz/issues/4352
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heggink
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by heggink »

Sounds all to familiar indeed. To much hassle and can't be bothered with zwave anymore. When it works it's great but the amount of time I had to reinclude devices...
Gradually switching to zigbee myself although that's no walk in the park (with z2m) but the issues are at least known and solvable.

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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by felix63 »

heggink wrote: Saturday 19 December 2020 14:38 Gradually switching to zigbee myself although that's no walk in the park (with z2m) but the issues are at least known and solvable.
Agree. And the hardware is cheaper too!
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by heggink »

Definitely cheaper but also less configurable than sometimes needed. That said, I have been struggling with some philio sensors to switch on garage lights for ages. Switching lights on is a breeze but then try to prevent them from switching it off again. 2x the same sensor, one works and one refuses to not switch off the lights no matter what setting I change. Drives me nuts. Fucking expensive and still not behaving...

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Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by kiddigital »

commentator wrote:root cause: the incorrect state in Domoticz. Openzwave cp state is always correct

see https://github.com/domoticz/domoticz/issues/4352
If that is the case, it could well be an issue with Domoticz. Would be great to find some reproducible example cases so it can be debugged and hopefully fixed.

The great thing about Z-wave+ is that is a good standard for a wide variety of use-cases (much wider and flexibel than ZigBee (3+)). Down-side is that a proper implementation isn’t as simple. I think a lot of (cheaper) devices do not always comply fully.

Especially earlier/older (non +) devices seem to be troublesome. And as Z-wave uses mesh-networking (devices communicating amongst each other) there could be a lot of mis-understanding causing devices not to respond correctly, quickly, etc.

From a developer perspective it is hard to test as there are so many different devices, so it really needs reproducible and clear examples and data.

But from a long-term perspective, Z-wave+ is a great step forward compared to the wild-wild-west of the 433Mhz days without any (or way too many) standards.

I am happy to help anywhere where I can once clear reproducible cases are reported.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by jake »

I have problems with zwave too. Every couple weeks a device is marked as a dead node and then I either need to switch is manually or click on the heal button. It is annoying that zwave doesn't do more effort itself to retry to get lost boxes back to life.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by JuanUil »

Also having problems with Z-wave.
Sometimes everything is working like charm and the all of the sudden problems occur:
- Dead nodes which are not really dead
- ID's 000 especially anoying with battery nodes
- Very long response time, sometimes more then 10 seconds.
and so on and so on.
Your mind is like a parachute,
It only works when it is opened!

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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by commentator »

And today again:
Correct state in openzwavecp
2020-12-21_LI.jpg
2020-12-21_LI.jpg (105 KiB) Viewed 7071 times
incorrect in domoticz:
2020-12-21 (1)_LI.jpg
2020-12-21 (1)_LI.jpg (180.71 KiB) Viewed 7071 times
IanDury
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by IanDury »

Same issues here. I was looking for clues and stumbled on this thread.

Capture.JPG
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by kiddigital »

commentator wrote:And today again:
Correct state in openzwavecp
2020-12-21_LI.jpg
incorrect in domoticz:
2020-12-21 (1)_LI.jpg
What is in the logging of Domoticz in and around that time period? When was the corresponding Domoticz device updated the last time?

The screenshot show difference indeed (assuming the timestamps are around the same) but more information like logging (maybe enable some debugflags) is needed to understand what is happening.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by commentator »

kiddigital wrote: Monday 21 December 2020 12:51 What is in the logging of Domoticz in and around that time period? When was the corresponding Domoticz device updated the last time?

Code: Select all

2020-12-21 09:02:09.783 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Access Control: Door/Window Open), NodeID: 4 (0x04)
2020-12-21 09:02:09.990 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_device_lampen.lua
2020-12-21 09:02:36.070 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Access Control: Door/Window Closed), NodeID: 4 (0x04)
2020-12-21 09:02:36.262 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_device_lampen.lua
2020-12-21 09:03:02.219 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 26 (0x1a)
2020-12-21 09:03:18.721 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 09:03:40.757 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 26 (0x1a)
2020-12-21 09:03:42.524 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 23 (0x17)
2020-12-21 09:03:42.696 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_device_beweging.lua
2020-12-21 09:03:45.401 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 09:04:01.998 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 09:05:03.044 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 23 (0x17)
2020-12-21 09:05:04.518 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 09:05:12.921 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 09:05:43.440 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 09:06:55.801 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 09:06:56.055 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 23 (0x17)
2020-12-21 09:08:03.060 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 09:08:17.566 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 23 (0x17)
2020-12-21 09:08:19.231 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 09:08:33.875 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 09:09:54.393 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 09:10:00.067 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_time_lampen.lua
2020-12-21 09:10:00.090 Status: LUA: De wasmachine staat aan
2020-12-21 09:10:00.092 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_time_apparaten.lua
2020-12-21 09:10:32.577 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 09:10:54.848 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Access Control: Door/Window Open), NodeID: 36 (0x24)
2020-12-21 09:11:01.672 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Access Control: Door/Window Closed), NodeID: 36 (0x24)
2020-12-21 10:00:00.319 Status: Starting automatic database backup procedure...
2020-12-21 10:00:02.555 Status: Ending automatic database backup procedure...
2020-12-21 10:01:21.911 Status: User: admin (IP: 192.168.178.252) initiated a switch command (938/Pixel3a/On)
2020-12-21 10:02:29.850 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Access Control: Door/Window Open), NodeID: 36 (0x24)
2020-12-21 10:02:41.977 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Access Control: Door/Window Closed), NodeID: 36 (0x24)
2020-12-21 10:07:53.597 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_device_sonos.lua
2020-12-21 10:23:19.576 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 26 (0x1a)
2020-12-21 10:23:49.608 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Tampering - Cover Removed), NodeID: 26 (0x1a)
2020-12-21 10:23:54.690 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 23 (0x17)
2020-12-21 10:23:54.851 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_device_beweging.lua
2020-12-21 10:23:57.173 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 10:24:19.787 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 26 (0x1a)
2020-12-21 10:24:20.788 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 26 (0x1a)
2020-12-21 10:24:27.237 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 24 (0x18)
2020-12-21 10:24:33.470 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 23 (0x17)
2020-12-21 10:24:40.914 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Motion Detected at Unknown Location), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 10:25:18.789 Status: OpenZWave: Alarm received (Home Security: Clear), NodeID: 25 (0x19)
2020-12-21 10:26:00.092 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_time_lampen.lua
2020-12-21 10:42:00.033 Status: LUA: Buitenlamp voordeur is aan terwijl domoticz denk dat deze uit is
2020-12-21 10:42:00.034 Status: EventSystem: Script event triggered: /home/pi/domoticz/scripts/lua/script_time_lampen.lua
2020-12-21 11:00:01.023 Status: Starting automatic database backup procedure...
2020-12-21 11:00:03.335 Status: Ending automatic database backup procedure...
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by Sarcas »

Same problems here. And frustratingly irregular. Sometimes after a reboot it just can’t get the nodes back from unknown, even after waking up, refreshing, re-adding etc. Sometimes they do work partly though. I just can’t trust them , and that is a pain.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by IanDury »

I was able to repair node 19 (Steinel IS140-2) by using the OZW control panel and turn on the switch from there. This somehow triggered Domoticz to recognize the hardware again. The configuration values in Domoticz were still default but fixed after clicking on "Request the current stored values from the device".
After re-including the Minimote (node 014) as a secondary controller without doing an exclude first, the Minimote was recognized again by Domoticz and the button definitions were still in place.
The Fibaro Motion Sensor (node 013, MS Trap) apparently healed itself after a while probably because it woke up and did some activity.

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JuanUil
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by JuanUil »

:evil: It is becoming even wearder,

Today I had to remove a node.
OZW removed a complete other node.
The one I needed to remove was a Qubino 2 way switch and it removed a neo coolcam wallplug!!!
I am really getting tired of this. :oops: :twisted: :evil:
Your mind is like a parachute,
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by IanDury »

This looks promising: viewtopic.php?p=264243#p264243

I'm currently building the latest beta with the relevant commit to test if it also solves the update issues that I see with my Z-wave devices.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by fargle »

In defence of ZWave, it seems that most problems mentioned seem to be associated with battery-powered devices. My installation has run 24/7 for over two years with only minor problems, but every device is either mains-powered or connected to another permanently- powered unit, and the system has worked as reliably as our crappy incoming power allows. I do have issues with OpenZwave, but imho with a stable mesh it's fine. A technology optimized for portable battery-powered devices, especially sensors, is what's needed. Does it exist?
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by dmtcaz »

I have some annoyances too wrt z-wave. And they take too much time fixing it. It's frustrating. What I experience is that devices pop up out of nothing. In my case this only happens with temperature sensors on a Fibaro Binary Sensor (FGBS001 type 501 id 1002). It is not battery-powered by the way. In the screenshot you see 4 devices of which two are included (137 and 138). These have worked fine for months and yesterday suddenly stopped reporting. So I take a look at Domoticz and guess what. Two new devices (150 and 151) have been created, not by me. Yes, they report the correct temperature. But the humidity is wrong because the sensors do not register this. No idea where this comes from. I don't know why the former are called LaCrosse TX3 and the latter WTGR800.
Schermafbeelding 2020-12-23 om 16.09.19.png
Schermafbeelding 2020-12-23 om 16.09.19.png (160.56 KiB) Viewed 6917 times
When this happened before, the z-wave configuration file seemed altered (zwcfg_[id].xml) and I replaced it with an earlier back-up. The problem was then fixed for some time. However, now I discovered that the config-file hasn't changed and replacing it makes no sense so something else must go wrong.

Question: how can devices have the same ID such as in the screenshot? If I delete one, than a new one is automatically created with the same ID (though with a new IDx). And does 'unit' in the devices-screen correspond to 'instance' in the z-wave configuration file? My guess is that something gets 'lost in translation' between z-wave communication and passthrough to domoticz.

I have loads of z-wave sensors, switches and actuators ( a small fortune) so would really be happy when this could be solved.

Domoticz Version: 2020.2
Build Hash: b63341bc0
Compile Date: 2020-04-26 13:47:55
dzVents Version: 3.0.2
Python Version: 3.7.3 (default, Dec 20 2019, 18:57:59) [GCC 8.3.0]

Aeotec Z-stick GEN5, OpenZWave USB Version: 1.6-1033-g3661f170
Last edited by dmtcaz on Wednesday 23 December 2020 18:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by dmtcaz »

Is this causing the problem? Log says:
2020-12-23 16:02:02.841 Status: OpenZWave: User Alert - Manufacturer_specific.xml out of Date

see viewtopic.php?t=28569
I run Domoticz as a service on a RPi3B armv7 Buster
Z-wave (Aeotec GEN5 usb-stick), Hue, Mqtt, loads of switches, lights, and sensors.
Everspring, Fibaro, Qubino.
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Re: Fixing Z-Wave for once and for all!

Post by harrykausl »

When 2020.1 occured, I switched from 4.10717 to the new version and had problems with zwave-devices. In 2020.2 also problems. So I went back to 4.10717 and z-wave seems to run normally (I had 2 times problems with my eurotronics-spirit). OZW 1.6 seems not to run in combination with domoticz as good as ozw 1.4 does. After every reboot the devices are present and work, in the new versions I often had problems.
I'd like very much to switch to the most current realeased system, but I prefer to have a running system.
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