Solar inverter placed: no 'usage' measured

[Rolandet]

Hi All,

I've just finished installing 17 panels + Growatt inverter

Strange thing is, although I do see the delivered power, I don't see any measurement on L1/L2/L3 usage anymore.
I've checked with some others with solar panels, and it should still read your consumption (regardless of where the power comes from)

right?

So, does anybody have any idea why that isn't measured, and how I can fix this?

screenshotDOom.JPG (52.63 KiB) Viewed 1448 times

[Toulon7559]

Where did you measure this data?

Solar Power today is abundant, therefore to be expected that on the grid-interface only delivery is applicable, and that all local consumption is fully served from early sunrise till late sunset.
On the cumulative energy-counting you should see a very small daily amount of kWhs for the nightly consumption.

Looking at the picture in your message, the explanation of the data may be:
Delivery1 = 536W
Delivery2 = 305W
Delivery3 = 541W
=> Delivery, total = 1382W
Usage all 0 => no power 'sucked' from the grid
Power-output, grand total is 1337W
=> internal/local consumption 1382 - 1337 = 45W distributed at the switchboard.

[Rolandet]

I'm measuring this through the p1 port of my smart meter.

The assumption is that your measurements are for the grid-interface: correct?
Solar Power today is abundant, therefore to be expected that on the grid-interface only delivery is applicable.
Looking at the picture in your message, the reason then may be simple:
Power-output, grand total is 1137W

Delivery1 = 536W
Delivery2 = 305W
Delivery3 = 541W
=> Delivery, total = 1382W
Usage all 0 => no power 'sucked' from the grid
=> internal/local consumption 1382 - 1137 = 245W distributed at the switchboard.

I'm not sure where you get that 1137. Don't you mean 1337? The figures don't add up exactly
So total collected: 1382, total sent to grid 1337
Somewhere I'm losing 45 watt. Which can't be my current consumption, considering the devices running atm

I'm interested to know how many watts of power i'm currently consuming. So it doesn't matter where it's from (grid or panels) I just want to know how much I'm using.

And like i said, if I look at other setups, it's does exactly that. For instance, below we see 579 delivered, 156+12 used, and the rest (411) sent to grid.
That's the kind of figures i'm looking for.

Knipsel.JPG (53.61 KiB) Viewed 1443 times

[Rolandet]

Could it be that the fact that my inverter spreads the collected sun power over all 3 Phases, that the usage over the same Phase isn't registered, but simply extracted from what is collected?

[Toulon7559]

You are right: error in my calculation.
Therefore also question where you measure, because 45W is very low for local consumption in an 'average' household.

Just 'check&recheck'
Does the PV-System have 'clean' lines to the Switchboard?
Nowhere Consumers attached to the lines between the PV-System and the Switchboard?

This aspect for me was reason to have separate energy-meters per Consumer-group:
otherwise you have to guess what the Consumers are 'sucking' from the Switchboard.

[Rolandet]

You are right: error in my calculation.
Therefore also question where you measure, because 45W is very low for local consumption in an 'average' household.

Yeah, i've edited my answer, right after you edited yours

Measuring from P1 port.

[Rolandet]

Ok, changing your answers doesn't give me an update email

So, yeah the lines are clean (installed today)

About my question regarding using all three phases to send to grid? Could that interfere with the usage numbers?

[Toulon7559]

At P1 of the Grid-Interfacemeter you only have a view on the grid-interface.
Do you have another interface to look at the 230V-data for your PV-system-interface?
Readout of your inverters?

[FireWizard]

Hi

You wrote:

Strange thing is, although I do see the delivered power, I don't see any measurement on L1/L2/L3 usage anymore.
I've checked with some others with solar panels, and it should still read your consumption (regardless of where the power comes from)

right?

So, does anybody have any idea why that isn't measured, and how I can fix this?

Sorry to say, but you are wrong.

The smart meter indicate the current you use from the grid (then you pay) or the current you deliver to the grid (then you get money back), but it is technical impossible for the smart meter to do both.
As long as current doesn't pass the smart meter, the smart meter will not see it. So the Smart meter will not see the production of your Solar Panels, it will see only the part of it, that is returned to the grid, if there is any.
If your house consumes more than the panels deliver, you will not see any return, on the contrary, you will see extra consumption.

If you want to see the production of you solar panels you should connect to your portal of the solar panel manufacturer/supplier.

You see a small difference between to total Power delivered to the grid and the sum of the individual phases.
This might happens, if the read-out of the data is not exactly at the same time (second)

So, if you want to have an overview of the total consumption in your house, you should do a calculation with, as input the data from your smart meter (P1 port) and the data delivered by your inverter.

Regards

[Rolandet]

Hi

You wrote:

Strange thing is, although I do see the delivered power, I don't see any measurement on L1/L2/L3 usage anymore.
I've checked with some others with solar panels, and it should still read your consumption (regardless of where the power comes from)

right?

So, does anybody have any idea why that isn't measured, and how I can fix this?

Sorry to say, but you are wrong.

The smart meter indicate the current you use from the grid (then you pay) or the current you deliver to the grid (then you get money back), but it is technical impossible for the smart meter to do both.
As long as current doesn't pass the smart meter, the smart meter will not see it. So the Smart meter will not see the production of your Solar Panels, it will see only the part of it, that is returned to the grid, if there is any.
If your house consumes more than the panels deliver, you will not see any return, on the contrary, you will see extra consumption.

If you want to see the production of you solar panels you should connect to your portal of the solar panel manufacturer/supplier.

You see a small difference between to total Power delivered to the grid and the sum of the individual phases.
This might happens, if the read-out of the data is not exactly at the same time (second)

So, if you want to have an overview of the total consumption in your house, you should do a calculation with, as input the data from your smart meter (P1 port) and the data delivered by your inverter.

Regards

Ok, I can understand the part about what the meter can and can't do.

But:
In the 2nd example I gave, I can see what's being used (156+12 watts) and what the panels provide (579). THe difference is what is being sent to the grid (411) right?

That example adds up perfectly

Knipsel.JPG (53.61 KiB) Viewed 1423 times

[FireWizard]

Hi

In the 2nd example I gave, I can see what's being used (156+12 watts) and what the panels provide (579). THe difference is what is being sent to the grid (411) right?

That's is fully correct.

Obviously you have a Single Phase inverter, connected to Phase L2, as I don't see L1 and L3.
Correct?

Regards

[Toulon7559]

Looking for internal info from a Growatt-inverter:
does this link has some value for you?
[Although according to messages on June 9 apparently a problem has popped up still unsolved]

[Rolandet]

Hi

In the 2nd example I gave, I can see what's being used (156+12 watts) and what the panels provide (579). THe difference is what is being sent to the grid (411) right?

That's is fully correct.

Obviously you have a Single Phase inverter, connected to Phase L2, as I don't see L1 and L3.
Correct?

Regards

ON the 'light' example. That's correct. It's my parents' setup.

On the dark one, my own, I have a 3phase inverter (Growatt 5000TL

[Rolandet]

Looking for internal info from a Growatt-inverter:
does this link has some value for you?
[Although according to messages on June 9 apparently a problem has popped up still unsolved]

Í'll have a look at that, thanks.

[Rolandet]

Funny
Now the sun is almost gone, but I turned on the oven (pizza time !!! )

THe figures now show:

L1 was delivering, untill i put the oven on, which apparently is on the same phase (? does that make sense? i know a phase is not the same as a group, but i'm not sure I understand this exactly)

So now it looks like the power from the oven comes from whatever L1 is taking from the sun + the rest from the grid? Which would mean I can't see what L1 is delivering is at the moment.

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[Rolandet]

Looking for internal info from a Growatt-inverter:
does this link has some value for you?
[Although according to messages on June 9 apparently a problem has popped up still unsolved]

I've added that python script.
I'll have to wait for sunshine to see what kind of values that give me, and see if it makes sense then. Thanks for this !

[Rolandet]

I think I'm running into the same errors as the guy in this topic


So I'll think I'll go for a clean install too.

Code: Select all

 2020-06-14 13:25:33.196 (Slimme meter) General/Voltage (Voltage L3)
2020-06-14 13:25:33.201 (Slimme meter) Usage (Usage L1)
2020-06-14 13:25:33.206 (Slimme meter) Usage (Usage L2)
2020-06-14 13:25:33.211 (Slimme meter) Usage (Usage L3)
2020-06-14 13:25:33.216 (Slimme meter) Usage (Delivery L1)
2020-06-14 13:25:33.221 (Slimme meter) Usage (Delivery L2)
2020-06-14 13:25:33.226 (Slimme meter) Usage (Delivery L3)
2020-06-14 13:25:34.170 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:36.170 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:39.421 (Fritz!) onHeartbeat called
2020-06-14 13:25:42.178 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:43.170 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:44.178 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:45.182 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:45.919 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:31.7.0(0 3*A)" is not a number
2020-06-14 13:25:47.182 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:48.168 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:48.961 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:41.7.0(00.00*KW)" is not a number
2020-06-14 13:25:49.387 (Fritz!) onHeartbeat called
2020-06-14 13:25:50.181 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:50.977 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:22.7.0(00.83*kW)" is not a number
2020-06-14 13:25:51.564 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:1.8.1(000097.!03*kh)" is not a number
2020-06-14 13:25:52.594 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:2.8.2(00 000.000*kWh)" is not a number
2020-06-14 13:25:54.169 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:54.580 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:2.8.2(00000.000*kWh)" is not a number
2020-06-14 13:25:56.170 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - CRC failed
2020-06-14 13:25:57.555 P1 Smart Meter: Dismiss incoming - value in line "1-0:1.8.1(000 97.103*kWh)" is not a number 

[FireWizard]

Hi,

@Rolandet

You wrote:

L1 was delivering, until i put the oven on, which apparently is on the same phase (? does that make sense? i know a phase is not the same as a group, but I'm not sure I understand this exactly)

Indeed a Phase is not the same as group.

Modern houses are connected to all 3 phases. 50-60 years ago, people has less electrical equipment as today and therefore only 1 phase was used.
So in older houses, you may find a 1 phase connection, with a main fuse of 35A. Today it is 3 x 25A. So totally you have available 75A, divided over 3 phases.

Your home electrical installation is divided in multiple groups, each protected by a 16A circuit breaker (fuse).
The total current of all the groups, connected to a single phase may never exceed 25A, while the current in a single group may not exceed 16A.

What has happened at the moment you want to make a pizza?
The oven consumed more power, that that the solar panels, connected to that specific phase (L1) couls deliver, at that time of the day.
So you took some extra current from the grid to supply to the oven.

It doesn't matter, whether your oven is connected to L1, L2 or L3

So now it looks like the power from the oven comes from whatever L1 is taking from the sun + the rest from the grid?

You are right.

Which would mean I can't see what L1 is delivering is at the moment.

If you mean with "L1 is delivering" the amount of current delivered by the solar panels, you are right.
Therefor you need the info from your inverter. it is 0A, because you are consuming from the grid.

If you mean with "L1 is delivering" the amount of current delivered to the grid, this is 0A at the moment, as you consume from the grid.
For communication with the GroWatt inverter, you should look here: https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/li ... es/1981180
and: https://github.com/johanmeijer/grott

The issue, that you discovered with your P1 smart meter is strange.

Do you have two devices installed? As I see Slimme meter and P1 Smart meter.
Or is that normal in case of an error?

And remember, in the other topic we never found a possible cause.

Regards



If you mean with "L1 is delivering" the amount of current from the grid

[Rolandet]

Which would mean I can't see what L1 is delivering is at the moment.

If you mean with "L1 is delivering" the amount of current delivered by the solar panels, you are right.
Therefor you need the info from your inverter. it is 0A, because you are consuming from the grid.

If you mean with "L1 is delivering" the amount of current delivered to the grid, this is 0A at the moment, as you consume from the grid.
For communication with the GroWatt inverter, you should look here: https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/li ... es/1981180
and: https://github.com/johanmeijer/grott

The issue, that you discovered with your P1 smart meter is strange.

I think I first need to get my inverter up and running. I haven't been able to get any readings on the growatt portal either
Waiting for their helpdesk to be available (telnr in Rotterdam, monday morning)

Do you have two devices installed? As I see Slimme meter and P1 Smart meter.
Or is that normal in case of an error?

I have 1 hardware device, which I called 'Slimme meter' of type 'P1 smart meter USB'

And remember, in the other topic we never found a possible cause.

I know, but seeing as he reinstalled and everything works as expected, that is something i may try



So once again, thanks for all the info and insight

[Rolandet]

Last update : this is the kind of figures I'm looking for

Panels deliver 121+119 watt= 240
Usage on Phase 2 = 212
So, delivered to the grid: 28 watt

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