Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

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lost
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Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by lost »

Hello,

I bought a few weeks ago a Fibaro keyfob remote. Willing to use it for security panel status changes (driving alarm status) + garage door control (using an already mounted qubino relay).

For alarm mode change, I was willing to do this through the controller. A direct connection works from front of my home so no problem for this use-case.

For garage door control, I expected a direct association to work better: More distance, especially if still in car + the qubino is just behind the door, nearest z-wave module for this use-case.

Problem: Direct association mostly do not work. In fact, controlling the qubino from the controller (using a scene) works better (but mostly needs a few tries, so still not convenient) than direct association.

Looking a z-wave mesh topology, there may be a reason: Qubino relay does not show a direct route with Fibaro remote. But does with controller, because included nearby as usual.

So my question is: Why are such (always moving) modules not able to be routed by every pairs able to do so? This would IMO be the best option.

At least, depending on user use-case, is there a way to force a topology branch/relaying pairs in z-wave mesh? Well, could do a re-heal with remote near qubino, but as network may be healed sometimes I would prefer a way to enforce some topology branches for reliability: I'm not willing to keep the remote in front of my garage door to ensure a nightime heal will not break things depending on remote location at heal time...

In fact, I'm just wondering if z-wave meshed nature is really suited for such remotes and, generally speaking, all moving modules??? If not, why do some vendors sells some? :?:

If someone with deep knowledge of z-wave internals have an answer/workaround, I would appreciate!

Regards.
Bostjan
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Re: Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by Bostjan »

Very good question indeed. Unfortunately I can not help you with direct answer, but I had similar issues/concerns with battery powered devices, Fibaro's motion sensor to be precise. Although it had few "physical" neighbor nodes it apparently could not get connection to controller, but for some reason network healing also didn't help to make connection through available neighbors - I purely speculate it was because it was sleeping when network was performed healing.
This is one of the reasons why I'm not fan of battery powered devices.

Exact algorithm of network healing will probably never be known as Sigma design is keeping Z-Wave internals in more secret as top secret state documents...
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Dnpwwo
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Re: Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by Dnpwwo »

@lost,

I feel your pain. I have 2 keyfobs lying dead on my desk that I bought years ago but abandoned for the same reason :cry:

From my research at the time I realized that I shouldn't buy anything mobile that could act has a controller because it meant that vendors are making them very small installations where they control other static devices like lights.

IMHO registering with another master controller on a house sized z-wave network, though technically possible, is not their primary purpose and the results are poor.

Happy to stand corrected if people have different experiences.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw
fargle
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Re: Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by fargle »

I have a Remotec ZRC-90 ZWave plus controller. It works in a minimal way with Domoticz where only a single keypress function is available for each of its 8 buttons, unless a script is used. But I can use it anywhere in my property where it can reach a node, in a place that's over 50 metres long. The OZW panel shows no associations between this device and any other, not even to the controller. Perhaps it works because I didn't use secure inclusion, who knows.
lost
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Re: Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by lost »

Hello,
Dnpwwo wrote: Friday 11 May 2018 6:28 From my research at the time I realized that I shouldn't buy anything mobile that could act has a controller because it meant that vendors are making them very small installations where they control other static devices like lights.
The Fibaro keyfob does not act as a controller. In my use case, there is only one controller (z-stick gen5) but even in this situation, z-wave allows direct associations (by configuring association groups with the controller) for having one module driving another directly (thus not using a scene/device script that will, if controller receive such command from module A, will send "on" command for module B for instance ; Direct association will enable A driving B directly if both are associated to the group that triggers an "on" command on B).

Problem is topology set at inclusion does not allow A/B direct communication and I think this is the root cause of direct associations not working. If I'm right, this means z-wave was not specified with moving devices in mind...
lost
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Re: Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by lost »

fargle wrote: Saturday 12 May 2018 16:17The OZW panel shows no associations between this device and any other, not even to the controller. Perhaps it works because I didn't use secure inclusion, who knows.
Runned into the same problem with a Qubino smart-meter after inclusion: Was showed in the network & operating correctly (reporting power measurements, able to control associated relay...), but without a single association in network topology page! And this is a 220V powered module mounted in my home electric panel.

After some time, maybe a reboot after raspbian updates meantime, module showed with a correctly reported topology.

So, this can happen (whatever battery/AC powered). I think this is just some reporting problem but when a topology is reported I think this is correct so may not be linked to my problem: Not being able to force some possible routes or having a "z-wave moving node" mode designed for such modules!
fargle
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Re: Z-Wave & remotes/modules with location changes...

Post by fargle »

lost wrote: Monday 14 May 2018 8:56
Runned into the same problem with a Qubino smart-meter after inclusion: Was showed in the network & operating correctly (reporting power measurements, able to control associated relay...), but without a single association in network topology page! And this is a 220V powered module mounted in my home electric panel.
In my case I dont see this as a problem, quite the opposite. Its useful to have a device that works anywhere it can reach any node. And it still works this way to date even after a complete domoticz reinstall since my last.

I use Qubino ZMNHBDx Flush 2 Relays+ They work OK, but the Wattage and Power consumptions are wrong or missing.
Anyone know how to get these working ?
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