Presence detector vs Movement detector

[juankar]

HI
I've wrote a script for turning on/off lights when I enter in a room. So when I enter in a room my PIR detects me and, and lux are too low, turn on lights. If the detector doesn't see anybody in the room lights are turn off.
Thats righ and Works finet. But If I'm sit down or I don't move, or I move just a little, the sensor interprets that the room is empty and turn off the light.
My question: is there any sensor for detecting presence not movement, but PRESENCE?. That's if anybody stays quiet in front of the sensor, this one detect him, althoug he is not moving.

[dannybloe]

Google for 'microwave doppler motion detector' maybe they are better.

[toreandre]

You could set the off delay in domotics, and on most diy PIRs there is setting to make the PIR stay on for a number of minutes before switching off again.
About the doppler i have seen people having minor problems with it since it can see through walls

[dannybloe]

I'd say: leaded wallpaper is the bomb

[juankar]

Yes, delay is a solution, but not is an ideal solution. If the room is empty light is ON for several for the time delay set.
If there is none sensor to detect presence isntead of movement the only way is a counter. I would increase or decrease when a perons goes into the room or exit from it. When persons are 0 light is off.
Then, now the question is if there is any kind of counter for ZWave. And two PIR cannot be used for this, as they see in a big angle.
I'll look for it.

[toreandre]

If you are familiar with arduinos you could use something like a presure sensor to detect if someone is sitting in the sofa/chair.
You could also use a distance sensor to see if someone is entering or leaving a room.

Og you could check out using a soundsensor to detect sound in the room.

[RoyT]

You could have a motion sensor above the door, on both sides, pointing down. When there's motion in the room and there was no event where the inside & outside sensors fire in rapid succession, it means that whatever entered did not leave. Didn't invent this: Fibaro markets this as a use case for their motion sensors

[juankar]

I think it doesn't work because sensors doesn't know if a person is going in or out the room.
Think that a person goes into the room, and then another person goes into the room. When first one enter sensor turns light ON, when the second persons enter sensors turns light OFF, it "thinks" the person who entered is exiting.
Or I didn't understand how Works this system.
Although with two sensors we could build a counter but sensors have a big angle so.... It's an idea...

[toreandre]

I think it doesn't work because sensors doesn't know if a person is going in or out the room.
Think that a person goes into the room, and then another person goes into the room. When first one enter sensor turns light ON, when the second persons enter sensors turns light OFF, it "thinks" the person who entered is exiting.
Or I didn't understand how Works this system.
Although with two sensors we could build a counter but sensors have a big angle so.... It's an idea...

As i mentioned earlier, to be sure to sense prensence you need multiple sensors like sound, presure, motion. Other than that know there is sensors that can detect bodyheat and co2 levels but dont know if they are available for zwave/DIY.

EDIT: This type of sensor can detect presence with no motion.
https://www.omron.com/ecb/products/sensor/11/d6t.html

[pvm]

When you carry a phone you can also use beacons

[juankar]

I've read about some posts about beacons, but indeed I don't know what is it.

[trixwood]

It's one google away: https://learn.adafruit.com/pibeacon-ibe ... i/overview
To test use something like: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/locate- ... 09014?mt=8

another fine site: https://www.pubnub.com/blog/2015-04-14- ... -overview/

So for movement presence/detection you can use (incomplete summery):

* PIR
NOTE: sees in big angle

* Laser

* Distance Sensor:
- Infrared distance sensor
- Ultrasonic distance sensor

* Microwave doppler motion detector
CONS: goes through walls

* Thermal Sensors
PRO: presence detection with no motion

* iBeacon
NOTE: only presence detection (and you need to carry your phone around)

* Wifi (presence detection)
NOTE: very wide (flat) area
CONS: some devices as the iphone disable wifi to save battery (and you need to carry your phone around)

* GPS Geofencing (presence detection)
NOTE: very wide (flat) area
CONS: and you need to carry your phone around

* Camera (motion detection)
- MotionEye
- Zoneminder
- Pikrellcam (http://domoticz.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... ion#p90277 developer promissed to provide some sort of domoticz integration!)
- OpenCV face recognition
- ...
NOTE: need ir cam, with ir lights for night detection

So are there more cons pros? or like combinations? or use cases?

[juankar]

Thanks, I'm Reading about it.

[juankar]

When you need to know if there is anybody in a room the best system is a counter. This system add when anybody go in and substract when anybody goes out from the room. It depends on the situation, and we need PIR with a very little angle to avoid false positives. It would be like two curtains in a door: one external and another internal. if you activate external PIR and then the internal one, you are entering in the room +1, if you activate internal PIR and then the external one, you are exiting off the room -1. While there are people in the room lighta are on, or heater are on, ar AC are on...
I think this is the ideal sistem, but there are not this device for ZWave. And the circuit is very easy.

[dannybloe]

The problem with this is when more than one person leaves the room at once. Then your counter fails. And it is also hard if you have multiple entrances to the room.