DomoticZ updates

[keros]

Hello

The 2024.6 was released in july 8th 2024 and the latest stable 2024.7 was released a few days after (on 13th july 2024).

I saw gizmocuz giving this info :

And 2024.6 is very old! Time to update

Whats is now the idea about stable releases ? Are they stopped ?

[gizmocuz]

Nope, but there is nothing wrong with the current beta.
We will soon rename the beta to stable if that makes you happy.

Maybe we should drop the whole idea of stable/beta and our betas are solid

[keros]

I know that the idea is to help the developpments by reporting issues but, i think that most users prefers to have a "stable" version for their home automation system.

By default, DomoticZ is configured to folow the stable releases. Without stable release, the general users are left behind.

Why not making a new release every 4 or 6 month ? This could be part of the developpement : you'll have the feedback of most of the community more often. In 2024, there has been 4 releases in January. It was perhaps a little bit too much.

[WouterO]

Nope, but there is nothing wrong with the current beta.
We will soon rename the beta to stable if that makes you happy.

Maybe we should drop the whole idea of stable/beta and our betas are solid

Then drop it. It’s quite unusual to treat beta as normal or stable, unless it is. Then better call it stable. This is confusing. We are very much taught NOT to use beta software in a stable ‘production ‘ environment. Controlling half of your house by Domoticz should only be done by a stable version.

[lost]

Not sure droping stables at all is the way to go. Sometimes there is big changes ongoing and for someone not checking github to see if there is no important changes this may be risky. Can accept this when some additions to your system needs those and users testing. Otherwise stability is a strenght of domoticz that should be preserved.
In the past we did celebrate a 1 year old stable, with some cake pictures on the forum!

[gizmocuz]

In the past.

So, in the resent 3/4 years, can you mention a mayor change that was not backwards compatible?

[jvdz]

So, in the resent 3/4 years, can you mention a mayor change that was not backwards compatible?

The API format changes.

[waltervl]

So, in the resent 3/4 years, can you mention a mayor change that was not backwards compatible?

Database changes?
In practice you only can go back when you find out the issue straight away. If you run into an issue after a week and go back to the complete backup you loose that week of data.

In the last years I have seen multiple examples when a beta version has caused serious issues forcing users to go back to an older version.
I would stay on the stable/beta way of working.
And if you want to go to only latest version make the check for updates standard disabled so only a manual update can be executed. And for those users who want to be always up to date (with the risk of have to go back to previous version) they can find the enable switch themselves.....

[gizmocuz]

- No normal user has issues with API format changes. This also happens when we make a stable each week
- Database changes? They are "always" backwards compatible
- sure, you cannot revert back to old software, you can if you make a backup, no software/platform is forward compatible

- pull requests/patches are always tested before merging
- when something needs to be tested 'as beta', users can do this by building from code
- building releases is and always has been a manual job (not counting windows users)

The major issue now is that users stay a long time on the so called 'stable' (a beta renamed to stable at that time)
Something is not working anymore, and that is because they don't use the latest version

[HvdW]

I'm always stable using stable.
Thank you developers for this fine piece of software.

[waltervl]

@gizmocuz If there is a new "stable" build every day, you expect all users to update every day?
So how do you expect/promote all users to be close to a recent release?

[WouterO]

In the past.

So, in the resent 3/4 years, can you mention a mayor change that was not backwards compatible?

That is not the point. Normal users hop from stable to stable version and should stay away from Beta versions. So, you can’t refer people to Beta versions and blame them for using the latest, 8 months old stable version.

[lost]

As I said hereupper, there is some periods with heavier development/changes. In the past when I used beta because I needed mostly to support new HW or features recently added I always checked if this was smooth period that should be OK to pick a beta.
More betas could probably be promoted as stable, but that should remain developpers decision who best know when that's going smoothly.
The API changes did impact some of my own services linked to domoticz so this indeed needed some changes. No real issue as this was my own stuff but even if this was for more consistant interface and a good change this must anyway be managed.

[azonneveld]

In the past.

So, in the resent 3/4 years, can you mention a mayor change that was not backwards compatible?

Well Zigbee2MQTT has upgraded to V2.x.
The Domo beta has support for that, but the stable not yet, so it would be nice to seal that gap.

[keros]

@gizmocuz If there is a new "stable" build every day, you expect all users to update every day?
So how do you expect/promote all users to be close to a recent release?

In January 2024, we had 5 stable releases during the month. I would say that was a bit too much.
People where starting to wonder why there were so many version in short time.

[jannl]

I upgraded yesterday evening from 2024.7 to the latesr beta, without issues, mainly because of the Tado thing.

I was wondering if I can read anywhere any precautions I should take when upgrading. That was one of the things I liked about the stable.

[gizmocuz]

In the past.

So, in the resent 3/4 years, can you mention a mayor change that was not backwards compatible?

Well Zigbee2MQTT has upgraded to V2.x.
The Domo beta has support for that, but the stable not yet, so it would be nice to seal that gap.

One of the reasons you should not stay on the stable for too long.

Maybe the stable should be called LTS

@gizmocuz If there is a new "stable" build every day, you expect all users to update every day?
So how do you expect/promote all users to be close to a recent release?

In January 2024, we had 5 stable releases during the month. I would say that was a bit too much.
People where starting to wonder why there were so many version in short time.

Yeah, some very nice features where introduced.

That is not the point. Normal users hop from stable to stable version and should stay away from Beta versions. So, you can’t refer people to Beta versions and blame them for using the latest, 8 months old stable version.

We have no real 'beta' versions, they are stable, but the history notes have not been updated.
(And it's quite some work to make a stable because of all actions needing to be performed)

Anyway, I will rename the beta soon to stable to satisfy some of you.

[lost]

Maybe the stable should be called LTS

This would mean having to support them for long, so backport fixes from newest betas => More work maintaining 2 branches & you already do a lot...
Still believe current approach to label a stable when this makes sense in terms of features addition since last one and no current heavier development or bug fixing phase, is a better bargain.

[WouterO]

One of the reasons you should not stay on the stable for too long.

This is só contradictory and in contrast with good/common practice!
I absolutely love Domoticz and promote this software as much as possible, but the view on Stable vs. Beta should really be reconsidered for the benefit of all.

[gizmocuz]

As mentioned above before, our betas are stable.