Eurotronics SpiritZ external temperature sensor Topic is solved

[rrozema]

I have read the Eurotronics SpiritZ thermostat (of which I happen to have 5) has a feature, where some external z-wave temperature sensor can send its temperature value directly into the thermostat for that to use it to control the valve. I don't have openHab, so I can't tell if it really works as I've read, but apparently you can add in openHab an association for the sensor to the SpiritZ, so that the temperature sensor reports its value directly into the thermostat, instead of the sensor first having to report to the controller, then the controller sets some settings in the thermostat. Openhab had this feature built in after this #720, but due to a merge error it only got into their main branche after #1041.

My Spirit Z (kind of) work with Domoticz (measured temperature doesn't update properly and all of the devices turn red after some time, but still it does control the room temperature), but in the zwave hardware pages the devices don't have any (association) groups to add a sensor into. So it seems like this very useful feature is not supported in Domoticz. Is it possible to get this added now that we are on OpenZwave 1.6? Ihope any of you guys can find the information from those links above to build this into Domoticz too. It makes these valves so much more useful if they can operate autonomously, independently of the controller. The controller will then only be used to make adjustments in the desired temperatures and monitor what's going on.

Note: I'm happy to donate one of my valves to the developer that builds this: contact me via PM.

[alkempter]

Hi,
I am not sure if the following information is related to your question, but I noticed since Domoticz 2020.1 I see an additional item in the devices for the Eurotronics:
Idx Hardware ID Unit Name Type SubType Data
77 z-Wave Stick 0901 1 WZ-Thermo01_effTemperatur Temp LaCrosse TX3 21.4 C

This seems to be the temperature the Eurotronic device is measuring itself, but I do know whether you can update this value manually or by a script.

Best regards
Al

[rrozema]

@alkempter That is correct, the "air temperature" is the temperature measured by the device itself. I can see that the valve opening changes depending on this value. That value is a sensor, i.e. it is a read-only value, setting it is not possible as far as I know.

But this is not what I am looking for. The problem I am trying to solve is that my living room takes a long time to heat up. The SpiritZ is mounted directly next to the radiator because that's where it needs to be to open and close the warm water line. However, If the temperature sensor is that close to the heating the temperature will rise very quickly as soon as the valve opens and the rest of the room will still be cold(er) when the valve is closed again. This is why in 'normal' configurations the thermostat is placed on a wall a few meters away from the radiator, so that the heat can disperse throughout the entire room before the heating is shut off again. I'm hoping to use an external temperature sensor to (automatically) control the valve in the SpiritZ.

The SpiritZ is supposed to have this feature where it can use some external sensor, away from the radiator, to measure the temperature further away from the radiator. I have read about this feature and I want to use it, but I can't get it to work yet.

I did find that the SpiritZ has a configuration option "8. Measured Temperature Offset", which has the following explanation: "206-255: -5.0 to -0.1°C. 0-50: 0°C-5°C. 128: External Temperature Sensor. Default: 0 (0.0°C Offset)". The way I read this, I should set this option to 128 and the device should accept an external temperature sensor's value to control the valve opening, instead of using that internal measured value. I don't know however how to tell it what to use as the external sensor. What I have tried is setting in the z-wave groups on the temperature sensor the id of the spiritz in the lifeline group, next to the controller's id (1). In my mind this should cause the sensor to send it's measured values into the Spiritz directly. I have tried this for a couple of hours, but I did not observe the valve making any movements while I had set it up this way, so my assumption is that either the SpiritZ didn't accept the notifications that the sensor sent, or the sensor never sent any notification to the SpiritZ. I can not make the SpritZ the only device in the lifeline group, as this sensor is an aeotec 6in1, implementing multiple sensors. The controller would no longer receive the PIR sensor's notifications that I need to turn on and off the lights if the id 1 is no longer in the lifeline group.

b.t.w. option "6. Valve Opening Percentage Report" must be set to 1 to make the SpiritZ send out updates of the valve changing state. The default setting is 0, and it will not send any updates ever when that is set to 0.

[EddyG]

Correct me if I am wrong. But is group1 not the lifeline which is used to send information to the controller?
Other groups are used for inter device communication. In this thermostat there are no other groups, at least in my setup, so your stuck.

[rrozema]

Yes, you're rght on both accounts: group 1 is the life line group for the eurotronic SpiritZ and the lifeline group is generally used to send information to its controller. However:
1 - the controller for a device is not necessarily the same as the main controller: z-wave allows sub-controllers, which are controlled by your main controller, to control other devices. In this case the valve could be the sub controller, controlling the sensor. i.e. the sensor would have the valve's id in its lifeline group, the valve would have my controller's id (usually 1). Effectively the sensor woudl report to the valve, the valve would report to the controller.
2 - it is not the valve's association group I need to set. I need to put the controller's id in the sensor's lifeline group. I want the sensor to report it's values to the valve. Not the valve to the sensor.
So that is what I did, I added the valve's id (92 in my case) in the sensor's lifeline group, which already had "1" in there and Domoticz did let me do that. It resulted in the sensor's lifeline group to show "1,92". I know however that most documentation says only 1 entry is allowed in that lifeline group. So it was a gamble, and it didn;t work...

[rrozema]

That said: The aeotec 6in1 allows to set which subdevices should send to each of the groups: I think I can set it up to send temperature notifications on, for example group 2, and then put 92 (my valve's id) in that group 2 on the aeotec 6 in 1. That should make sure the temperature notifications get sent into the valve. I will try this later on the day...

[barts2108]

"and then put 92 (my valve's id) in that group 2"

That valve ID 92, is it de Domoticz valve's z-wave Node-ID, z-wave ID, device Idx or device ID (see highlighted items in the images)

domoticznodes.png (108.45 KiB) Viewed 1992 times

zwavenodes.png (33.88 KiB) Viewed 1992 times

Could you share a screenshot how the zwave setup looks like (especially where you can see this 1,92) ? That would be very helpfull

[rrozema]

The ids I'm referring to are the z-wave ids. So that is the NodeID column in your 2nd picture. Associations are a z-wave specific feature, so you can only specify z-wave node-id's here and even then, you can only use any features your specific z-wave devices support.

Capture 92 z-wave hardware.JPG (29.31 KiB) Viewed 1980 times

Associations isn't the most standardised feature of z-wave, so a lot of vendor specific behavior can be seen in this area. Domoticz' use of z-wave association groups has improved a lot in the 2020.x versions, but I think it still isn't completely error free. For example, often you can set options on your device to change/activate the device's association behavior. For example, my node 43 is an Aeonlabs ZW100 MultiSensor 6. Options 101, 102, 103, 111, 112 and 113 for this device seem to suggest that 3 association groups should exist for this device. As you can see I've set option 102 to have temperature notifications sent to any device in the 2nd group, plus I've set option 112 to have that temperature notification re-sent every 300 seconds.

Capture 43 Options 101 - 113.JPG (159.81 KiB) Viewed 1980 times

However, only 1 -the lifeline group- is shown in Domoticz:

Capture 92 associations.JPG (39.1 KiB) Viewed 1980 times

I was expecting to see a '+'-sign under 'groep 2' and 'groep 3' as well, but they are not there. I wanted to put the node id 92 (the node id for my spiritz device) in this 'Groep 2', to have node 43 send the temperature to my spiritz every 5 minutes. But because there is no such 'Groep 2' for the multisensor, I have tried to put it in the lifeline group instead.

I can save you some time however: This setup doesn't work. I have since then read that this is a problem of the spiritz firmware: it apparently accepts, but doesn't understand the temperature message the multisensor is sending. This has something to do with the way the temperature value is encapsulated in some multi-value message format. I don't know all the details either, but apparently only a very limited number of z-wave temperature devices can actually be used as an external sensor for the spiritz because of this, and my ZW100 multisensor 6 isn't one of them. Eurotronic doesn't mention this anywhere. But then, they don't really advertise the external sensor feature either. I think this is a shame as it would make their valve so much more useable....

I think I have 2 problems preventing me from using the external sensor feature:
1 - the aeonlabs ZW100 multisensor 6, allows only 1 association group to be set in the groups tab, even if you set option 102 and 103.
2 - the eurotronic spirit zwave has a firmware that doesn't properly support temperature notification coming from anything but the simplest temperature devices.

[harrykausl]

Does the external sensor feature work for anyone. And if yes, which sensor do you use? Thanks!

[rrozema]

It didn't for me. There is a very informative thread in the home-assistant community: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/e ... r/88430/10

I have not been able to get my spirit's to work of an external sensor. But according to information in above thread it can work if your sensor provides the temp readings in a format that the spirit will accept. I have read about 2 methods of achieving this. I have not been able to verify either though because I don't have the resources required:
- using the temperature sensor provided by eurotronic. I think it's this one, but I'm not sure: https://www.reichelt.nl/nl/nl/temperatu ... ol_2&nbc=1
- using OpenHAB, which apparently lets the controller itself send the temperature to the spirit itself. This Is a very nice feature, as it even allows to use non-zwave temperature sensors. But I don't see this coming to Domoticz any time soon, since development on OpenZWave has come to a stand still lately.

[harrykausl]

Thanks for your answer. Perhaps I will try the eurotronics temperatarue sensor, it seems to send temperature in group 2. The best solution for me would be, to have a external sensor, which shows the temperature on its display and would send it via zwave group 2 to the spirit. Still better would be, if I could set there a temperature heat value too . This could be send to may thermostat via lua. So all could be handled at this device. I would see the measured temperature and the temperature to reach. I did not find such a device.

[rrozema]

I had the same idea: basically it's a thermostat device that sends its temperature into the valve instead of switching the boiler on and off. But, since this would be a compound device it would probably send the temperature in a format that the spirit doesn't accept.. It's a real short coming of the spirit I think.

I think the spirit z is a great device, but it's a real shame the firmware isn't upgraded to accept more temperature readings. I have tried contacting Eurotronic support several times already. If you send a message in English, you don't even get an answer. And if you send a question in German you only get answers from some 'standard list of answers'. Recently I asked for information on how to detect via Z-wave when the spirit Z intends to heat the room, so I can switch off the boiler when no room needs any heat. 1st response was that their device doesn't support switching the boiler... Well that wasn't what I asked, so I explained better, then they respond with: "We suspect your device to have a heat-problem, if you send us your contact information we will replace it for you"... Argh! I don't have a problem with any of the 7 devices I have, I only want to know how they see the device could be used to have my z-wave controller switch the boiler on and oiff!

[harrykausl]

You can check the level device. It is either off or shows percents of opening.

[rrozema]

I know. I was creating a script to turn my heating into a zoned heating. But it's not really all that simple.

[harrykausl]

Today I got the Eurotronics temperature sensor. I included the device-xml-file and changed the manufactiurer.xml. Ican include it in my 4.107 installation, I see the device in the zwave-panel with correct values. But on the domoticz device-tab I only have a name sensor of type switch. I don't have a temerature nor a hunidity device. Is it possiblem that this doesn't work in my old 4.107 installation?

[Maxx]

I don't know if it helps, I have 4 x the Eurotronic and zone heating.
I just control the valve (manufacturer specific) based with a simple PID (actually only P) on the temp of an external sensor. This can be any temp sensor in Domoticz. It's a work around but it's been keeping my house warm for two winters now.

Code: Select all

function intPID(setpoint, avg_Temp, minValve, maxDifference)
	local Kp = (90-minValve)/maxDifference            
        local error = setpoint - avg_Temp
        local output1 = (Kp*error+minValve)
	if output1 >= 90 then 
		outputFinal = 90
	elseif output1 < 90 then
		outputFinal = output1
	end 
	return round(outputFinal)
end

[harrykausl]

My problem is, that after including in zwave, I only have one device for the temperature and humidity sensor. The name ist sensor of type switch. There are noc devices for temperature and humidity.

[harrykausl]

I reincluded it and now 3 devices are there. Thanks

[Maxx]

Strange, I don't know how old version 4.107 is but my setup runs since september 2019.

You need:
Valve and mode only for the way I use it

I don't think humidity is a device for the Eurotronic. What does you hardware screen look like?

[Maxx]

ok, great